>>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. <<<<<<<<. In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let the> women there know that there was an interloper? WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. at the > ceremony/orgy. When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. ANSWERS: 4. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. >What else could he call it? Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. Statanic mass? NG was :>the realization of that potential. If he were> Ziegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privately> communicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly as> possible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Ziegler> subsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like a> complete fool')? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? Poor Clark. And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. <<<<<<<<<<<>. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. Mandy was not the same woman. <<<<<<<<< he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? ", "I saw her body in the morgue. In Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a `Mysterious Woman'. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing > this," Mandy says, "Ya." Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. Desire is always Other. ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. I actually had to look that up. He wasn't positive. Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professionaldoctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety thanabout Mandy's actual wellbeing. How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. What a joke to call them "philosophers." > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? Let him go! And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. Is that how youwould describe it? Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me. What else could he call it? No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. He didn't recognise her voice. Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to > all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. If it'ssupposed to be obvious, then why is it treated as such a great revelation,and why is a character who is presented as being reasonably intelligentso dense as not to see it? > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. Again. Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' Put on some headphones and listen. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. Tragically it was the director's final film with Kubrick dying less than a week after screening an incomplete cut for the studio and its stars. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. The masked woman was played by a different actor but is the samecharacter. But which'party' is Bill referring to? (Just like we dream alone, even if we're in bed with someone else.). And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. >What else could> he call it? >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was> showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). 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